Probe Bet ip aka "vs missed Cbet"

[js2002]

Hi WR, hi Kraada,

some month ago I wrote the HoldemManger Stat "vs missed CBet". There its a category and I wanted to have the "Bet" Stat.

So my definition is:

Flop Probe Bet ip:
Player is non-pfa
Player has position
Player sees the missed Cbet Flop (here the problems begin)
Player bets same street

Isnt it similar to kraadas float flop stat?
Here´s my solution but I think ist very buggy:

sum(if[holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_bet and holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_face_raise and not(holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_cbet_opp) and (holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos > holdem_hand_player_statistics.position), 1, 0])

sum(if[flg_f_open_opp and flg_p_face_raise and not(flg_f_cbet_opp) and (holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos > holdem_hand_player_statistics.position), 1, 0])

With my position check, I allow relative positinal advantages to be counted. Player doenst have to be in absolute posi to the button.
Is kraadas star better (defined)? Is mine obsolete now?!
_______________________________________

Turn Probe Bet ip:
Player is non-pfa
Player has position
Player faces Flop Cbet and
Player calls flop
Player sees the missed Cbet Turn(here the problems begin)
Player bets same street

Well this is a standard float i guess. (Well PT3 defines it only as "non PFA" on previous street, but thats no problem, because I filtert the float turn stat further down to this specific situation and now it´s "Float (the Flop)CBet (on) Turn SRP (single raised pot, i also have it for 3bet pots)

Please tell me your optinion! Especially about the positionals issue on flop. (How does the PT3 turn float stat handle position? Like me with the > check or with has_position?)

[kraada]

The turn case is easiest so let's get that out of the way: That's exactly the turn float and fold to turn float percentages.

Back to the flop: That's what I intended the "Float Flop" stat to be (as it's the flop analog of the turn/river stats).

You are correct that your solutions are quite buggy. Most noticibly that if you get 3-bet and call, that hand will still count in your definition, which strikes me as a pretty big problem.

My definitions are:

cnt_f_float:
sum(if[ holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_face_raise and holdem_hand_player_statistics.cnt_p_raise = 0 and holdem_hand_player_statistics.cnt_p_call = 1 and holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_f_open_opp and holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_bet and holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos > holdem_hand_player_statistics.position, 1, 0])

and cnt_f_float_opp is identical just without flg_f_bet.

Under my definition you must face a preflop raise and not raise yourself. If you want to include 3-bet pots here, but you want to make sure you were not the preflop aggressor, you can use: NOT(lookup_actions_p.action LIKE '%R'). That construction wasn't known to me originally, but personally I like this definition -- it's a closer analog. With a turn float, you're calling the flop cbet to bet the turn if checked to. Here you're calling the preflop raise to bet the flop if checked to (or so went my reasoning). So we don't raise preflop there was a raise and we called exactly once. Why exactly once? I don't think the situations where say the HJ raises, you call OTB, the BB 3-bets, and you call again OTB should be included here. You can remove then cnt_p_call = 1 condition if you think they should. Then of course you need a chance to open the flop, and in the case where you do float, you actually bet, and you are in position.

I think that covers all cases; is there anything that you can see that I've missed?

[js2002]

thx.

So if Player is in the sandwich and floats it is also counted.
hmmmm I like it a little bit more when its the absolute posiion, because some players only make "moves" when they are absolutely in position.

[kraada]

Actually the thought occurs, you could make the version for absolute position as well (just use flg_f_has_position), and actually see if people do skew - run a report on your database for people's Float % and Float In Absolute Position % and see what the difference is. If there are people with large skews it might even be worth it to have both in a popup or some such.

[js2002]

The hand below fails beeing TRUE for this expression:

flg_f_open_opp and flg_p_face_raise AND (holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos < holdem_hand_player_statistics.position) AND
lookup_actions_f.action = 'X' AND
holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_t_open_opp AND
holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_t_bet AND
holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players_f=2 AND holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players_t=2 AND
NOT(holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_f_cbet_opp)

Maybe the (holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos < holdem_hand_player_statistics.position) test fails because its HU. Thought this was fixed!
So can it be that its 9 < 8 here? It should be 0 < 8 in HU games.
(I doubt 4 6max games now as well: SB vs BB is 9 < 8 so it fails ther too correct? EDIT: think I cant happen there)


GAME #1776570235: Texas Hold'em NL $0.02/$0.04 2009-08-10 17:56:29
Table Yanam (Heads Up)
Seat 3: KidOnTiltRaise ($7.52 in chips)
Seat 8: js2002 ($4.26 in chips) DEALER
js2002: Post SB $0.02
KidOnTiltRaise: Post BB $0.04
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to js2002 [H8 H5]
js2002: Raise (NF) $0.12
KidOnTiltRaise: Call $0.08
*** FLOP *** [C9 H4 H3]
KidOnTiltRaise: Check
js2002: Check
*** TURN *** [C7]
KidOnTiltRaise: Bet $0.24
js2002: Call $0.24
*** RIVER *** [S6]
KidOnTiltRaise: Check
js2002: Bet $0.18
KidOnTiltRaise: Call $0.18
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.01 Rake $0.07
KidOnTiltRaise: Shows [D6 DJ]
js2002: wins $1.01

[kraada]

Maybe the (holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos < holdem_hand_player_statistics.position) test fails because its HU. Thought this was fixed!
So can it be that its 9 < 8 here? It should be 0 < 8 in HU games.
(I doubt 4 6max games now as well: SB vs BB is 9 < 8 so it fails ther too correct? EDIT: think I cant happen there)

I think you are correct that this is your problem.

You can fix your column by replacing "AND (holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos < holdem_hand_player_statistics.position) AND" with "AND (holdem_hand_player_detail.val_p_raise_aggressor_pos < holdem_hand_player_statistics.position OR (holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players = 2 and holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_blind_b)) AND"

[js2002]

thx aalternativ I can use the "%R" thing correct?!

[WhiteRider]

So can it be that its 9 < 8 here? It should be 0 < 8 in HU games.

Just to clarify - there is never a position 0 in heads up games.
There is always a small blind and a big blind position, and these are always 9 and 8.

[js2002]

yes now I know.
The converter shows BTN/SB at my position, and some of mine stats dont work HU because of this issue. but thats not really important and now I know to fix it.

[kraada]

thx aalternativ I can use the "%R" thing correct?!

Having your PF action string be LIKE '%R' just means your last action preflop was to raise; it doesn't have anything to do with your actual position in the hand.